The Only Housing Choice for New York's Children | This Robin Hood Moment

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Stable housing is not just a roof over a child’s head—it’s a critical factor for healthy physical, emotional, and cognitive development. In this episode, with guest Christine Quinn, President & Chief Executive Officer of Win, we examine an aspect of homelessness in New York City that’s rarely discussed: family homelessness, wherein thousands of children are facing housing insecurity.

We explore how homelessness disrupts schooling, increases health risks, and affects behavioral outcomes in children, and why ensuring stable housing is essential to breaking the cycle of poverty. With Christine, we discuss one of the latest policy proposals from the New York State Child Poverty Reduction Advisory Council, including expanding Housing Choice Vouchers (HCVP) to low-income families, and how these interventions can create a foundation for healthier, more stable lives.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at info@robinhood.org.

“This Robin Hood Moment” is hosted by Kevin Thompson and Crystal Cooper. The show is produced and edited by Cory Winter, with graphic design by Mary Power. Additional motion graphics and footage are provided by Motion Array. Our theme music is from Epidemic Sound.

The views and opinions expressed by external podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Robin Hood or its personnel, nor does Robin Hood advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.

TRANSCRIPT

This transcript was prepared by a transcription service. This version may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Kevin Thompson: From Robin Hood—New York City’s largest poverty-fighting philanthropy—I’m Kevin Thompson. Welcome to “This Robin Hood Moment.”

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Kevin Thompson: There’s a popular refrain among housing advocates that says housing hardship is not just a symptom of poverty, but a driver of it. In New York City, where a quarter of people under the age of 18 live below the poverty line, and where nearly all households in poverty are spending the majority of their income on rent, you have to wonder, does this adage apply to child poverty as well? Today’s episode hinges on this simple premise that the child poverty crisis might, in part, be a consequence of the housing crisis.

Enlisting the help of my fellow Robin Hooder, Crystal Cooper, we’re exploring how we undo child poverty across New York State, one policy at a time. Our series comes as a body of experts appointed by Governor Kathy Hochul, known as the Child Poverty Reduction Advisory Council, or CPRAC for short, deliberates on their final recommendations that are meant to cut child poverty in half across the state by 2031.

As a matter of principle and transparency, we should note for our listeners that Robin Hood CEO, Richard Buery, Jr. is a member of that Council.

Thanks to New York City’s right to shelter law, it’s quite uncommon to see children on our sidewalks, and in our subways and parks who are street homeless. But what most of us don’t see is that nearly 50,000 children sleep in homeless shelters in New York City each night, which is roughly almost three times the seating capacity of Madison Square Garden. Against incredible obstacles, they wake up in shelter beds and commute to classrooms that promise a pathway to a different and more stable life.

Crystal, today’s topic is one that feels incredibly urgent, not just for New Yorkers, but for everyone who cares about kids and families who are struggling to make ends meet.

Crystal Cooper: Absolutely, Kevin. And what’s exciting about this episode is that it ties directly into some important policy work happening right now with CPRAC. This council was established by Governor Kathy Hochul as part of the Child Poverty Reduction Act with one ambitious but essential goal: to cut child poverty in half by 2031.

It’s a huge undertaking, and they’re doing some really thorough analyses to figure out what’s working, what’s not, and where changes can be made.

Kevin Thompson: Yeah, and they’re not just analyzing what’s happening. They’re going to be making real policy recommendations that could seriously impact the future of child poverty in New York State. In fact, they’ve been meeting for months, pulling together data and stories from across the state, and they’re planning to vote on their final report this December.

So these next few weeks are critical as we wait to see what changes are recommended.

Crystal Cooper: Exactly. And Robin Hood has a big stake in this conversation. As New York City’s largest poverty fighting philanthropy, we’ve been working for 36 years to lift families out of poverty, not just through grants and financial assistance, but by advocating for smart, impactful policies that address the root causes of poverty.

And one of those root causes is housing instability. For families experiencing homelessness, especially those with young children, it’s not just about finding a roof over their heads. It’s about the ripple effects that housing instability has on every other aspect of their lives: education, health, nutrition, emotional well-being.

Kevin Thompson: Right Crystal, and when children lack stable homes, they often live fractured lives.

Crystal Cooper: Which brings us to today’s guest, someone who is on the front lines of this fight every day, advocating for families and leading an organization that has been a lifeline for thousands of homeless women and children. Christine Quinn is the President and CEO of Win, which is the largest provider of shelter and supportive housing for homeless families in New York City. Christine has been doing incredible work for years and Win has been a true partner in fighting child poverty.

Kevin Thompson: Christine, thank you so much for joining us today.

Christine Quinn: Well, thank you and thanks for having me.

Crystal Cooper: Christine, I want to start by talking about the families. Wynn serves thousands of families every year, and I can imagine that each one has its own story of struggle and of resilience. Can you share with us what you’ve observed about the unique challenges homeless families face, and particularly the children?

Christine Quinn: Well, we serve at Win, We’re the largest provider of transitional housing shelter to homeless families, and also the largest provider of permanent supportive housing. We house about 12 percent of all the homeless families, about 6,000 people a night, give or take half of whom are children.

What we see at Win is statistically significant. You can extrapolate and draw from it larger policy recommendations. So, the top two reasons people come to us, one is fleeing domestic violence, which is probably a lane, so to speak, in the poverty conversation that needs to be separate, but demands attention, but is very difficult, very difficult.

I’ll never forget the mom I was talking to once and had agreed to do a television interview, so we were sitting in an office waiting, and I said, if you don’t mind, how did you end up here? And she said blah, blah, blah about the boyfriend, and it was clear to me the boyfriend was a drug dealer, and she wanted to get away from him. And I said, also, if you don’t mind me asking, was he ever abusive?

And I’ll never, ever forget it. She cocked her head and kind of put her hand on her chin, and she said, well, does the time he choked me till I passed out when I was pregnant count? Does that count?

So I say that because that’s an issue, and we have to figure it out, and it’s hard, because for people to leave, it’s hard for people to leave. The other is eviction. And what we see is the majority of moms, when they get to win, are working, but they’ve been evicted, because they’re working in minimum wage jobs.

And even if you get a quote unquote good rent in the city of New York, that’s not enough money to pay the rent. And that’s why at Win, our income building program last year, for example, raised the average income of moms by $4. Because for me, the number of families in the shelter is tragic, but it’s not the most important number.

The most important number is the number of families that return to shelter, because that means for those families, the program we had at Win, or the program we have as a city has failed them.

Kevin Thompson: I want to talk a little bit about behavioral impacts. You know, what kind of toll does homelessness take on children, emotionally, socially, and how does stable housing make a difference in the lives of those children?

Christine Quinn: So, homelessness is a trauma, and much of what poverty is, is also a trauma, before you even get to the shelter. And, you know, at Win, look, we run a great shelter program, but it’s still a traumatic place to be, and it’s not where you want to be. And children, when things have gone less than perfectly in their family, they blame themselves.

If somebody’s sick, getting the shelter, they take it on as their responsibility. So, not every shelter out there, because of the way the city funding is, is able to have fully comprehensive youth programs. All, and we do it when we raise private money for that, thanks to Robin Hood and others.

Also, at when we deliver every service through a trauma-informed care lens for all staff. So, you have to really structure all of your service deliveries to give children a way to express the trauma, so they can get it out. Because if it stays inside of them, so to speak, it’s only going to fester and blister and become, you know, an albatross around their neck as an adult.

Because one of the key factors that can indicate who is going to be a homeless adult is if they were a homeless child. So, we’ve done, you know, art exhibits. We recently had a street fair with our two largest shelters and our largest permanent housing building.

And I’m smiling, which you can’t see on the podcast, because it was the greatest day. The children were just running around this block smiling and in the bouncy house and in the science experiments. This great group, Campaign Zero, did it with us.

And that’s what you need.

Crystal Cooper: Actually, I had a follow up question about that, because within the context of that specific shelter, explain what the difference in, you know, school life looks like for these children, what the difference even in how they show up and behave in the shelter looks like when they have an outlet.

Christine Quinn: The average homeless child will go to two to three schools a year.

Kevin Thompson: Wow.

Christine Quinn: The rule of thumb for the Department of Homeless Services, maybe it’s regulation, is that a family should be placed in a shelter closest to the school of the youngest child. But it really doesn’t happen. They just send them whenever there is an opening.

So that’s a problem because they get jostled around. They’ll also get to a new school at a various point during the school year. So that’s hard for a non-homeless kid to just show up at school and be the new kid.

Also, now we give every child at the beginning of school year, but we have extras if you come later on, new clothes, a new backpack, new supplies. Because once they figure out you’re the homeless kid, you’re teased mercilessly. So school can often not be the safe haven that we wanted to be for homeless children.

And you know, recently with the migrant folks who are here and the city very, very wrongfully, in my opinion, evicting families from shelter after 60 days. What they, we raised, well, the kids are going to school. You can’t do that.

And they said, don’t worry. They’re rehousing placement, if they get one, is going to be in the same borough, so they won’t have to switch schools. Well, you know, if they were going to the school near Floyd Bennett Field, and then they’re moved to Park Slope, that’s a commute that is unrealistic.

So even their own statement of that shows that they don’t understand what staying in a school can do for a child, and not having that, how difficult it can be for a child.

Kevin Thompson: So that’s part of the stability, right?

Crystal Cooper: Absolutely. That word came to mind in that example.

Christine Quinn: And stability and also routine, children like routine. They like to go, you know, the same place every day at the same time, or to take the bus, and for that to be disrupted when their lives have already been disrupted is very dangerous.

Kevin Thompson: I wonder, you know, because we keep talking about the research and how it’s pointing to, you know, stability as a sort of goal. What are some other policy prescriptions that you think are necessary? I mean, because you’ve been at this for a while. You’ve had a pretty broad perch. You’ve been the speaker of the city council. So, what do you think should be happening that isn’t happening right now from a policy perspective to promote stability, housing stability for children?

Christine Quinn: So the biggest thing we should do is expand housing vouchers, right? So the housing vouchers are a mechanism by which you pay part of your rent and this housing voucher from the city pays the other the rest of your rent. And the vouchers are by far the most effective housing placement we have.

Now, some people will say, oh, expand housing vouchers, we don’t have enough affordable housing. That’s right, we don’t have enough affordable housing. But just was on a call with the Homeless Services Commissioner last week, and she said that month after month after month, the number of apartments rented with vouchers keeps going up.

So there are apartments out there. There is more elasticity than people think. That’s not to say, take your foot off the pedal of building new buildings.

So we should raise the income a little bit on who can qualify for a voucher. We should issue vouchers to undocumented people, and we should address the administrative bureaucracy that makes it too long to get the vouchers. On the last one, I want to give Commissioner Molly Clark some thanks because she really is working on that.

And why that matters is the administrative problems, you can imagine, keep people in shelter longer. And if you’re most of the children in shelter are below five. So if you’re in shelter just two more months, that’s a lot of your life if you’re five years old.

Also, the landlord isn’t going to hold the apartment if you’re just waiting for X, Y, or Z paperwork because he or she might have somebody else who comes forward who wants it. So those are three or four things we could do right away that would get people into permanent housing and therefore create greater stability for a homeless kid, formerly homeless kid.

Kevin Thompson: So the CPRAC recommendations are pushing the house. On the state level, the housing choice vouchers.

Christine Quinn: Which would be great. We’ve long supported that at Win, I think that would be a great recommendation. You know, you hear a lot from the city on this. Well, the state should do more and they should. And if out of this report or recommendations that happened, that would be very significant.

Kevin Thompson: I just want to touch on one last point about vouchers because, you know, they’ve had a checkered past in New York City, and I think we can both agree on that. But you said just a few minutes ago, you know, the number of people that hold vouchers that are getting into apartments is on the rise. And that’s such great news.

Christine Quinn: And the vouchers a few years ago, when Steve Banks is the Homeless Services Commissioner, really largely based on wins, push and recommendations, it used to be that after five years, that’s it.

Kevin Thompson: Right.

Christine Quinn: Done, no more vouchers. Now, there’s after five years, there’s a means test. And as long as you meet the economic requirement or the income requirement, you could get it forever.

Kevin Thompson: Right. So that brings that stability back into play.

Christine Quinn: And was helpful with landlords. Yeah. Because they’re like, what am I going to do? Evict them every five months? That’s not going to help people.

Kevin Thompson: That’s a good summation of how we got here or what the problem was and sort of speak with vouchers. Do you feel like we’ve overcome that at this point and we’re at a place where the legislature can adopt a program like the housing choice voucher program?

Christine Quinn: I think so.

Kevin Thompson: And what do you think has changed that gives you hope about that?

Christine Quinn: I think that putting the vouchers back in, you know, people have heard from constituents, heard from advocates. What a difference they have made and they real have real tangible stories that they can hold on to as they move this forward. It’s taken it out of kind of a just a dollars and cents conversation.

Crystal Cooper: Well, we’re in the midst of an affordability crisis right here in New York City. And so it’s in our collective best interests that we are able to navigate this crisis and that the lowest income New Yorkers are able to, you know, gain stability through housing. In a hypothetical world where it’s finally the moment for vouchers and Kathy Hochul and the legislature expand housing choice vouchers, what does the city then need to do on its end, perhaps separate from vouchers and expanding eligibility, to get families into permanent homes, the families you serve?

Christine Quinn: So one thing that the city needs to do is prevent people from entering shelter by allowing people to use vouchers when they are facing eviction. That way you’re going to prevent them from coming to shelter, you’re going to allow them to stay in their own apartment. And the money you would spend on the voucher is far less than we would pay if they actually got evicted and came in to shelter.

Crystal Cooper: So what does that look like? It would be a family who is maybe severely rent burdened. They don’t have a voucher right now. It’s clear that they are going to run out of money or lose their home. And then the city steps in or they’re able to file for it.

Christine Quinn: Exactly.

Crystal Cooper: And they get it and we’re using it to prevent it.

Christine Quinn: Exactly, exactly. Now the other thing the city needs to do, and this is not necessarily quick, but there’s been a lot of conversation about converting office buildings, which are not as used now, into residential. And I actually had a conversation today with a developer who’s done two big office buildings.

But to do the office buildings broadly will take a pretty big rezone. And that can take like a year plus. So the City Planning Commission needs to get, you know, working on that or working on that as quickly as they possibly can.

And then the city needs to the City Council pass legislation saying that every new development needs to have, I can’t remember now if it was 10 or 15 percent, set aside for people in shelter or formerly homeless. So we need to hold accountable the developers to make sure that’s really happening.

Kevin Thompson: I’m curious to know, you know, because you are dealing with a very all encompassing issue and a population that is sort of constant at need, right? You know, what is giving you hope in this moment?

Christine Quinn: So the street fair that I mentioned, which was it had not one but two bouncy houses, it had science experiments, it had dancing, it had chalk art, and actually the wind staff was having a great time, and that gave me hope because it reminded me what our goal is for these children, for them to be children. And the mothers watching them with such clear eyes reminded me how on it our moms are, how really on top of it they are, and how organized they are because not everybody stood at the bouncy house. They had shifts, they were working it, so that really gives me hope.

Also, our Vice President for Supportive Housing, Brian Dickerson, of his own accord announces, I’ve created a mentor program. And so there’s mentor program for all of our supportive housing kids now, and they came to visit the other day. And that just like that our staff is so great and just takes on more work, makes me very hopeful.

Crystal Cooper: That’s so inspiring, Christine, and you are equally as inspiring. Your work at Win is truly making a difference. We’re just so grateful that you were able to join us today.

Kevin Thompson: Thank you, Christine.

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Kevin Thompson: As we close today’s conversation with Christine Quinn, we wanted to leave you with another critical perspective, one that underscores the human side of the affordable housing crisis we’ve been talking about.

Crystal Cooper: Exactly, Kevin. Earlier, I had the privilege of speaking with Candace Cabral, a statutory member of the Child Poverty Reduction Advisory Council. Candice isn’t a policymaker or a housing expert by trade. She’s a mother and an advocate who brings the lived experience of navigating poverty and housing instability directly to the table.

Kevin Thompson: Her voice is such an important addition to the CPRAC work. Policies around affordable housing can feel very abstract, but for families like Candace’s, there are the difference between stability and uncertainty. Crystal, what stood out to you from your conversation with her?

Crystal Cooper: Candace’s story is a testament to both the challenges so many families face and the resilience they show every day. Here’s a clip where Candice talks about her own struggles with finding safe, stable and affordable housing for her family.

Candace Cabral: I had a lovely mother. She lived in Las Vegas. My dad is Dominican, but he got deported when I was very young. So I never got to meet this person. I’m 40 years old now, still don’t know who my father is. Filling with that, I got abused when I was very young. My mom actually took me to the drug house to actually purchase the drugs for her. But it was a problem, it became a problem. So when I went to the first to a group home when I was 16.

When I turned 17, I got to come back home to my mom. They gave me back to her guys, even though if you feel poor or paper, I didn’t want to go back. I was 17. Some more of the story, when I turned 17, I got out. She told me, you’re grown, you’re 17. I can’t do anything for you anymore.

At this time, I’m actually homeless at 17. She’s getting ready to move out to leave for Florida. Her addiction is really bad. I had to worry about where I was going to live. What was I going to eat? Who was going to protect me? What was I going to be doing? So I had to literally learn to get all these things as a 17-year-old.

Didn’t know these departments. Didn’t know how to navigate. Didn’t know how to read. So when I went to welfare, the things they, public assistance, when they were asking me these questions, first it said, social security, where do you live? I didn’t have any of these things.

Crystal Cooper: Candace’s experiences are a stark reminder of why affordable housing isn’t just about having a roof over your head. It’s about security, dignity, and opportunity. I also asked her about how those experiences shape her work on CPRAC and her contributions to the council’s discussions on housing policy.

Candace Cabral: Right now, I say with the council, they came up with three different proposals. But when you look at it, when we say public assistance, if it was at 100%, all of our incomes is different. So I feel like if I’m a mother of four, why am I receiving the same amount for a person that’s receiving for one income?

So I feel like with public assistance, we have to change that income level of our household. Like you said, and I feel like with Section 8, the same way that they covered that cost, to not be couch to couch. When you’re couch to couch, you have to do what other people ask you to do.

Sometimes those environments is not so good, guys. So imagine you finding us, you can open a key. I never had a key. So to be able to have a key, it was major to me. So guys, like I said, I was happy to go look at apartment. I went to two apartments and the third one was mine.

The landlord was so nice. She was compassionate. DSS application was like, it was like 30 days, guys. I got the house, got furniture, you have food stamps. You have something that you call your home now.

When parents cannot, I feel somehow public assistance has to be the same way because you know these parents are really struggling already with the 30% and below. And that’s going to be more for us to be in homeless, you know, in homelessness or shelters. Why not be able to put the more funding where it’s supposed to be?

Kevin Thompson: It’s powerful to hear someone like Candace describe the real day-to-day impact of housing and security. It’s stories like hers that make the need for comprehensive affordable housing solutions so urgent and so personal.

Crystal Cooper: You’re right. Candace’s perspective is a vital reminder of what’s at stake for so many families. Her role on CPRAC ensures that policies are informed by the people they’re meant to serve. And I’m so grateful she shared her story with us today.

Kevin Thompson: Thank you, Candace, for your honesty, your courage, and your advocacy. And thank you, Crystal, for bringing her voice to this conversation.

That’s it for today’s episode of “This Robin Hood Moment.” Special thanks to Christine Quinn for joining us and shedding light on how we can better support families experiencing homelessness.

Crystal Cooper: And don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss our next episode, where we’ll continue examining the child poverty crisis in New York City and what measures it will take to drastically cut it.

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Kevin Thompson: This episode of “This Robin Hood Moment” was produced and edited by Cory Winter. Graphics by Mary Power. Our theme music is from Epidemic Sound. I’m Kevin Thompson, joined by the ever-insightful Crystal Cooper, for Robin Hood—New York City’s largest local poverty-fighting philanthropy. Thanks for listening.