The True Cost of Raising a Child in New York | This Robin Hood Moment

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What does it really cost to raise a child in NYC? In this episode, with special guest Reshma Saujani—Founder and CEO of Moms First, Founder of Girls Who Code and bestselling author of “Brave, Not Perfect”—we explore why current benefits fall short in covering the needs of families, especially in a city with such a high cost of living.

We discuss the New York State Child Poverty Reduction Advisory Council’s proposals to raise the CTC to $2,000 for younger children and how these changes could make a profound difference in reducing the financial burden on families, providing them a chance to thrive rather than just survive.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at info@robinhood.org.

“This Robin Hood Moment” is hosted by Kevin Thompson and Crystal Cooper. The show is produced and edited by Cory Winter, with graphic design by Mary Power. Additional motion graphics and footage are provided by Motion Array. Our theme music is from Epidemic Sound.

The views and opinions expressed by external podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Robin Hood or its personnel, nor does Robin Hood advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.

TRANSCRIPT

This transcript was prepared by a transcription service. This version may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Kevin Thompson: From Robin Hood—New York City’s largest poverty-fighting philanthropy—I’m Kevin Thompson. Welcome to “This Robin Hood Moment.”

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Kevin Thompson: Over the last couple of years, the focus on child poverty in New York has only intensified, and rightfully so. One in four children in New York City are currently living in poverty. Let that sink in for a moment.

That’s nearly 25% of our kids, thousands of children, who don’t have access to basic necessities like stable housing, food security, or even quality education. And while so many children are already in need, the cost of raising a family continues to rise. A recent Investopedia study found that raising two children through the age of 17, including sending them to a four-year public university, could cost up to $832,000.

Meanwhile, the average cost of raising a child in New York City now exceeds $32,000 per year, according to the latest data from Credit News Research. New York is a state with immense resources, but the disparities in access and opportunity are stark, particularly for children in marginalized communities. This makes the work ahead even more critical.

However, there is hope on the policy front. In December 2021, Governor Hockel signed the Child Poverty Reduction Act into law, setting a bold goal to reduce child poverty by 50% by 2031. Central to achieving this goal is the Child Poverty Reduction Advisory Council’s commitment to the expansion of the Child Tax Credit, which has already proven to be a powerful tool in helping families meet their basic needs.

The expanded Child Tax Credit, when fully realized, can directly address the financial pressures families face, but the Child Tax Credit alone isn’t enough. While it plays a crucial role in alleviating immediate financial strain, we need to pair it with policies that address long-term systemic challenges families are facing. That’s where the trifecta of paid leave, affordable child care and equal pay come in.

These three pillars are critical to ensuring that families, especially mothers, are not just surviving, but thriving. That brings us to today’s conversation with Reshma Saujani, founder of Moms First and a tireless advocate for mothers and families. Reshma has been at the forefront of pushing for these very policies, policies that lift mothers out of poverty and give families the tools they need to succeed.

Her work is about more than just temporary solutions. It’s about systemic change that dismantles the barriers families face every day. So with the stage set, let’s bring my co-host in, Crystal Cooper, as we explore how these policies intersect and why the conversation with Reshma today is so vital to the future of child poverty in New York City.

Crystal Cooper: Kevin, you really hit on something that resonates with me. Those staggering statistics about child poverty. We see a very similar picture when we zoom out statewide. Nearly 20% of children across New York State live in poverty. And as their parents struggle to make ends meet, the futures of these children grow dimmer. We say so often at Robin Hood that a person’s lifetime potential is shaped largely by what they experience as kids. Across the state, that experience is one of hardship.

Kevin Thompson: Exactly, Crystal. And when we think about the solutions, it’s not just about increasing a dollar amount in someone’s paycheck, though that’s part of it. It’s about creating a support system that allows families to break the cycle of poverty, to access the resources that are out there, but often just feel out of reach for so many.

Crystal Cooper: Right. And something that Reshma Saujani has done so well with Moms First is really focusing on how critical policies around family leave, child care, and equal pay play into lifting families, particularly mothers out of poverty. It’s not just about charity or assistance, it’s about creating environments where mothers and families can succeed.

Kevin Thompson: Yes. And it ties into Robin Hood’s mission as well. You mentioned earlier how disproportionately affected children of color are. This is where systemic inequalities really come into play. When we talk about lifting New Yorkers out of poverty, we’re talking about dismantling the barriers that have been set up for generations. That’s why these policies matter, and it’s why we’re so excited to have Reshma on the show today.

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Kevin Thompson: Reshma, thank you so much for joining us today. Your work with Moms First has been groundbreaking in advocating for mothers and families. To start us off, I want to ask a more personal question. You’ve been a champion for moms for years. What inspired you to launch Moms First, and how has that personal journey shaped your approach to advocating for these kinds of systemic changes?

Reshma Saujani: Yeah, so, I mean, it’s such an interesting question. If you had asked me a couple of years ago, would you be running an organization to help moms? I’d be like, no.

It’s not where I thought I would find myself. I, this journey began in 2020. I was finally having my second child after 10 years of fertility challenges.

Girls Who Code had a Super Bowl ad. We had taught more girls than ever before. I was going to take my paternity leave, have that date night.

You know, just get a moment to just breathe and celebrate. My son was born on January 25th and the world fell apart on March 8th. And I found myself having to home school my five-year-old, take care of a newborn baby, and save Girls Who Code from being shut down.

Because as you all probably know, as leaders who fund incredible organizations, for a lot of women and girls organizations, when pandemics or crises hit, the first resources to go are the resources that are going to them. And I found myself literally having to rebuild Girls Who Code from scratch. Now, you know, one of the things that I’m so proud about, Kevin, is like half the girls we teach at Girls Who Code are under the poverty line.

Half of them are Black and brown. And that September, so many of them were on their way to college. But because their mothers were essential workers, our nurses, our teachers, the people that kept our city open, and because daycare centers were shut down and schools were shut down, my students, instead of going to college, they had to stay home and take care of their siblings.

So you saw how when you live in a nation that has a broken structure of care, how that creates a generational cycle of poverty, especially for girls of color. And it was then that I decided that, I think I need to, I could teach millions of girls to code, but if I didn’t help their mothers, I’ve not solved gender equality, that motherhood is the unfinished business of equality. And that’s what led me to step off as CEO of Girls Who Code and to start another movement organization, Moms First, to really, really make a dent in structural change, to solve and fix and pass paid leave and childcare.

Crystal Cooper: Amazing. Reshma, you’ve given us a view into this linchpin of motherhood and supporting mothers as part of breaking the generational cycle of poverty and expanding upward mobility. I wanna talk about the moms themselves who make up this powerful grassroots movement. You went from Girls Who Code to then starting the Marshall Plan for Moms. Nowadays, your organization goes to buy Moms First. So it’s quite a few names to keep track of. Tell us a little bit about the experiences and frustration of mothers nationwide.

Reshma Saujani: Yeah.

Crystal Cooper: Tell us about the movement, how it got started and what you were advocating for.

Reshma Saujani: So, I mean, the movement got started. So it’s so interesting you asked that question because I think everything I’ve built has come from the voices and the stories of the people that I’m trying to serve. So for Girls Who Code, it was teenage girls basically wanting to solve COVID, climate, and cancer, and seeing that technology could be an arsenal in their toolkit.

And here it was me in 2020 as a mom feeling like, gosh, is it just me? Can I not balance my job and my career? Like, did I just marry the wrong guy?

Like, is it me? And that beautiful Zoom screen opened it up to recognize it. Oh no, it’s not me. It’s 85 million of us. We’ve all been set up to fail. And I think it was the collective scream of mothers to say we’re not your social safety net, right?

Like, no, this isn’t our personal problem to fix. This is government’s problem. This is business’s problem.

This is society’s problem. And so that, so in many ways, this started with me and my comms director at that time, Deborah Singer, having a cheeky moment where like, let’s take a full page ad in the New York Times and address Joe Biden and give him some advice about what he should do in his 100, first 100 days.

Crystal Cooper: And moms?

Reshma Saujani: Yes, yes. And let’s go find 50 of our friends, like, you know, Amy Schumer and Gabrielle Union and, you know, like, and have them sign on. And so, honestly, that ad was just a cheeky way to let out our anger and frustration.

Kevin Thompson: And what did you call for?

Reshma Saujani: We said every mom should get a $2,400 check because we don’t work for free. And that’s the cost of our labor, right? And it went viral.

And it was called, and it was basically, the point was we need a Marshall Plan for moms. And I think the two of you are probably history nerds too. Like, it felt like moms felt like we were living in bombed out cities.

And we needed a wholesale plan to fix American motherhood. And I remember my team saying, you know, you got to do something now. Like, this is resonating.

And I am, I was someone, and I feel like you all can appreciate this, the Robin Hood, it’s like, there’s so many incredible organizations. I didn’t need to start another one. And my mentors Hillary Clinton, Cecile Richards were like, no, actually, Reshma, this can’t just be a campaign.

This needs to be an organization. You’re trying to solve a problem, and there is no other organization. You’re trying to fix the American workforce.

You’re trying to fix American motherhood. And there is no organization that is leading the fight for America’s moms. And so that’s how really moms, and not everyone’s a history nerd, so Marshall Plan for Moms had to change to Moms First.

And that’s really where, and we really thought about, OK, if we’re shifting from, if we’re shifting from, so the conversation with gender equality, again, just set the table: 75% of high school valedictorians are girls. We are the most educated population of women in the world.

The vast majority of those getting their bachelor’s degree are women. It’s about to be the vast majority getting their PhDs are women too. Why is it, though, that almost 50% of women, for example, in tech will leave their jobs by the time they’re 35?

That you have, when you look at the epsilons of power, what, in any industry, right? In Main Street, in Wall Street, in VCs, in Congress, wherever, it does not look like the educated population in terms of the gender demographics. Why is that?

And why is it that when you try to explain that to me, if I work at a bank, a law firm, quite frankly, if I work at Walmart or JBS Foods or Chobani, you and I’m being addressed by the Women’s ERG, they will tell me that, well, the problem is you just got to get a little more confidence. You need to get a mentor. If you had a sponsor, right?

You could actually be a manager. If you had a skill, now it’s like if you knew how to use AI, right? So we have told women the reason why we have this disparity is you.

Crystal Cooper: So following the dialogue of all of these women, no matter the sector, no matter their pay level, are having these same challenges, are encountering these same challenges, are you to say then that there are solutions that apply across the board, no matter if you’re a woman in tech, no matter if you’re a woman. So what are they?

Reshma Saujani: There’s three.

Crystal Cooper: Tell us about the trifecta.

Reshma Saujani: One is paid leave, right? Most women go back to work two weeks after having a baby. Most women go back to work before they’re ready.

They could literally have C-section and be in an adult diaper and they’re asked to go back to work. Most poor women, women of color are back to work the next day, right? Or they’re taking their vacation days or their sick days to physically heal, right?

And we are the only industrialized nation that doesn’t have paid leave. So that, if you start off when you have a child by being set back, you never recover. So one is paid leave.

Also, paid leave is really important because paid leave, and the fact that paid leave, if offered, if used, is often used by women, is what has created the pay, the gender gap in unpaid labor. It’s the reason why two-thirds of caregiving work, whether it’s a child or an elderly parent, is being done by women. Because we haven’t created a culture where we’ve encouraged men to also take, play a role in the caregiving.

So, pay leave as a policy is a way to really get at gender equity in terms of unpaid labor. Number two, child care, right? We are the wealthiest nation that puts the least amount of money into child care.

Forty percent of parents are in debt because of the cost of child care. Child care now is rising, costs more than your mortgage. So we’re having a great conversation about inflation right now and it’s not gas prices or eggs, it’s your child care, right?

For single moms, it’s almost 40 percent of their income. Child care as a business model is broken. So on one side, 50 percent of Americans live in child care deserts.

You can’t find it and you can’t afford it. On the other side, child care workers are most precious people who take care of our children are grossly underpaid. They love children so much that oftentimes they go into poverty to take care of people’s children.

I think the pandemic created this awakening for them too, which is like, no, no, no, I can’t do this anymore. So there’s not enough child care workers. So as a business boss, someone has to come in and provide the subsidy.

That’s, quite frankly, should be the government with support from the private sector. The last thing is the pay gap. We talk about how we have a gender pay gap.

We don’t have a gender pay gap. We have a motherhood penalty. So the problem is that for men, they basically get a 6% increase every time that they have a child. It’s called a fatherhood premium, but we lose 4% for every baby. So you never recover.

So then what happens is years down the road, when you’re in child care and your expenses come and you’re looking at your salary, if you’re in a heteronormative relationship, you’re looking at your partner’s salary, guess who gets a downshift because it makes financial sense? Women.

All of this is the reason why every year, it’s like you get another report from the World Economic Forum, another 100 years, another 1,000 years. It’s like every year, we fall further and further and further behind because we don’t solve these structural problems.

Crystal Cooper: Where we are in New York State with the staggering rates of child poverty. Obviously, if a woman who’s a little bit more well-off, has to suffer those consequences, they might not be as dire as they are for women who are already beneath the poverty line and are not being met by an adequate social safety net.

Reshma Saujani: Yeah, that’s absolutely right. We built a tool called Paidleave.ai, because we recognize that while New York State is one of the states that do offer paid family leave, less than two out of five people quite frankly are taking advantage of it. And that’s almost $10,000 in wages, which is a difference between putting food on the table or funding your child care.

Like it has serious, serious consequences for low income workers, especially if the reason why uptake levels are low is because government sucks at customer service. And so low income women have the least amount of time to go on there and figure out, am I eligible? How much money do I get?

How do I figure it out? And so Paidleave.ai, the tool that we launched, raises awareness about paid leave benefits for particularly low income moms who don’t know that benefits are available to them. And then it simplifies the benefits process by answering questions in 26 languages.

Like am I eligible? How much money do I get? You know, what’s my next step?

And, you know, decades of research have shown that paid leave, paid family leave programs are a powerful driver of economic growth and improved maternal and child care, child health outcomes, especially for low income moms in communities of color and single moms who are least likely to have paid family leave from their employer.

Kevin Thompson: I’m curious to know because we’ve talked about paid leave, we’ve talked about child care, we’ve talked about equal pay. And certainly, there are some things that are being done on each of those fronts. What do you see as the most urgent policy gaps that need to be addressed right now in order to ensure that programs like those three categories not only work, but that they’re sustainable for the long term?

Reshma Saujani: I mean, I think it’s child care, child care, child care, child care. Remember, 50% of New Yorkers live in a child care desert. So this is an enormous, enormous problem.

I, quite frankly, think New York City and New York State should be leading the way in universal child care. We should be leading the way, leading the way, building the model that other states and other cities follow. And I am like, I think that to me, we need to have that advocacy, that kind of push for New York to really be the leader on this.

Kevin Thompson: So, as we talked about, Reshma, at the top of the show, we referenced the CPRAC body that New York State has stood up. And one of the interventions, if you will, to cut child poverty that is being floated by CPRAC is the use of the child tax credit. Yeah, what’s your take on that, and how does that sort of compare with the three big trifecta?

Reshma Saujani: Yeah, I think it’s a yes and. We need that too, right? I mean, in many ways, it’s interesting.

I mean, a child tax credit is kind of like that $2,400 that I was recommending way back in the day when the Marshall Plan for moms kind of came about. It’s to give families the money that they need to use the way that they, what they need it for, whether it’s shoes, whether it’s diapers, whether it’s groceries, right? There’s no one size fits all for families.

I think it also, from a, I don’t know, from a philosophical perspective, I think just recognizes the unpaid labor that is often done by moms, and that that is work, you know what I mean? And that there’s a monetary value that comes by that. And then we know from the data that the child tax credit reduces child poverty, period.

It is the, what, it’s actually probably the most powerful way to reduce child poverty in our arsenal.

Kevin Thompson: And it goes back to what you called out in your ad during the pandemic, because you asked for the cash assistance. You said, this is what the cost is.

Reshma Saujani: Yes!

Crystal Cooper: Well, I could totally agree, like, check, check, check. Can we take out another ad, I guess, along the journey to where Moms First is today? How have you navigated resistance to child poverty issues or social safety net issues in the past?

Reshma Saujani: Oh, God, girl. I mean, I, look, I think the thing is, is that there’s a lot of resistance to programs that help mothers and programs that help children. You know, when I started the Marshall Plan for Moms, like, what about the dads?

Or this idea of cash assistance to families was seen as untenable. But we live in a country that says that we want people to have children, that we know that when you have a declining birth rate, which we do, you have a dying nation. Nations are judged by their values.

And to me, that’s how you treat your children, and how you treat poor people, and how you treat your elderly, and how you treat your women, right? And so, like, to me, I think from a cultural perspective, like, there’s a lot of work to do. Here’s the thing, I’m hopeful.

So, like, I’ll tell you why. You know, six months ago, the team at Moms First said, you know what, every time I talk to a politician, I’d say, why aren’t you passing childcare? And they say, listen, it’s like number 13 on the list.

Like, it’s way after AI, China, and trade. And so, you gotta get it to be number one, two, or three. And so, we were like, all right, yes, we will do that.

So, about six months ago, we developed a plan, a very intentional plan, about how we get child care raised at the presidential election cycle as one of the major issues that the candidates were talking about. So, we did a petition with CNN. We had 15,000 moms signed it.

We did a social media campaign. The question gets asked. One out of 17 questions.

The candidates at that time don’t answer it. They talk about their golf game. That pissed off moms.

Woo, right? And so, now it intensifies. And so, we’re like, all right, the next time.

I am a member of the Economic Club of New York. Of course, the moms at the ECNY say, Donald Trump is coming, two Democrats, two Republicans, ask a question. Would you like to ask a question?

I sure would. Can I ask about child care? Yes, you can.

I ask a very simple question about child care. He doesn’t answer it properly. It goes viral, right?

And so, then that sets off an entire discussion on every single show about how you fix child care in America. Now, fast forward to the VP debate. The two mom journalists, they ask about child care.

Both candidates discuss it for eight minutes. Both candidates released their child care policy. They did not have one.

You know what I mean? When we started this campaign. And now, you just had an article in The New York Times the other day saying, Trump’s talking about child care.

Like, we thought, what will happen? It will happen. So like, my point is, is we have more power than we know.

People are rallying around it much more so. It’s kind of, on all of them, it’s the one that’s almost the least controversial. We were kind of arguing about how, it’s funny.

Now the candidates are like, no, I’m going to give $6,000. No, I’m going to give $10,000. But no one is, you know, it’s moved along.

And I think, but I think the opportunity there is the uptake levels are very low. And that’s what I learned with Paidleave.ai. The durability of the policy is not just based on the win. It’s based on whether people use it or not. And so as advocates, we have to pay attention to that as well. But, you know, again, as we’re thinking about what does it make, what does it take for a family in America to survive?

It’s all these things. It’s the CTC, it’s paid leave, it’s child care.

Kevin Thompson: It absolutely is. Reshma, thank you so much for sharing your insight and your passion. It’s clear that if we want to make some significant strides in reducing child poverty, we’re going to need some bold, comprehensive policies that, like you’ve laid out here today, that not only will support families financially, but will also provide the structure they need to thrive. We really appreciate you being on the show today.

Reshma Saujani: Thank you so much. Thank you both.

Crystal Cooper: Thank you, Reshma.

Reshma Saujani: Thanks, Crystal. Thanks, Kevin.

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Kevin Thompson: As we wrap up today’s conversation with Reshma Saujani, we want to take a moment to center the lived experiences of families navigating the overwhelming cost of raising children in New York City.

Crystal Cooper: That’s right, Kevin. Earlier, I had the privilege of speaking with Candace Cabral, a statutory member of the Child Poverty Reduction Advisory Council. Candace’s perspective is unique because she’s not a policymaker, she’s a mother and an advocate who’s lived through the realities we’ve been discussing.

Kevin Thompson: And those realities are staggering. We know that raising a child in New York can cost tens of thousands of dollars a year. Child care, housing, food, education, it all adds up. Crystal, what did Candace share about her own experience?

Crystal Cooper: Candace spoke powerfully about the trade-offs her family has had to make, just to make ends meet. Here’s a clip where she describes the challenges of affording basic necessities for her children.

Candace Cabral: For me, I know that it was a big hit for me when I, my tax credit, I’m going to say when we can honestly get more money into our hands, you see more parents, so I have things that my kids, my son wants to, got to go to prom because we have extra income. We can be honest, it looks better when you have more income for your kids to go to college or things you need. But when we say we’re getting $1,500 guys and you’re working like less than $10,000, you’re less than $20,000, I feel like that’s the hinder for our community.

So for me, it would be child tax credit, more employment and honestly more hands, more organizations need more money in their pockets. So that means for public assistance, childhood, child tax credit, you know, child care, we need more money for honesty for parents.

Crystal Cooper: Her story is such a stark reminder that the numbers we talk about, the statistics and policy recommendations represent real families who are struggling to build a better future for their children. I also asked Candace about how these experiences inform her role on CPRAC, particularly in conversations about affordability.

Candace Cabral: I have my son is 19 now. It was totally different. He was growing up with me. He was going to all these parenting classes with me. He just told me that at 19, he was like, Mom, we started going to Board of Education because the school, the environment that I was in. Just everything.

I looked at him and I was proud of that. My kids are advocating now. These are kids are Black, Puerto Rican guys, and every day they get discouraged.

Every day they think police, they think people that don’t look like them. They think things that online. But honestly, I look at my kids and I tell them that, you are put here for a reason. Like this is big for me. Like being on this council means everything.

This is legacy for me. This is something that I can tell my kids that your mom wasn’t just talking about it. She was honestly being about it.

Kevin Thompson: Candace’s insight is invaluable. When you hear her speak, it’s clear that the cost of raising children in New York isn’t just a line item in a budget. It’s a crisis that impacts every aspect of a family’s life.

Crystal Cooper: Her perspective ensures that CPRAC’s recommendations address not just the numbers, but the real human impact behind them. Families like Candace’s need solutions that are equitable and effective, and her voice helps push those solutions forward.

Kevin Thompson: And I think today’s conversation has shown just how interconnected these issues are. We can’t talk about child poverty without talking about supporting mothers and caregivers. It’s all part of the same system.

Crystal Cooper: Exactly, Kevin. And as we move forward, we’ll continue to follow the work of CPRAC closely and share more about Robin Hood’s role in shaping these crucial policies. For now, we want to thank you all for listening to “This Robin Hood Moment.” Be sure to subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes where we dive into the fight against poverty right here in New York City.

Kevin Thompson: Thanks for joining us today, everyone. And a special thanks again to Reshma for being here. We’ll see you next time.

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Kevin Thompson: This episode of “This Robin Hood Moment” was produced and edited by Cory Winter. Graphics by Mary Power. Our theme music is from Epidemic Sound. I’m Kevin Thompson, joined by the ever-insightful Crystal Cooper, for Robin Hood—New York City’s largest local poverty-fighting philanthropy. Thanks for listening.